Clubhouse Goes Mainstream—Where Does It Go Next?
2021-02-10 18:23

Elon Musk made headlines again this week. As usual, it was something involving Mars, memes, Tesla, and ... monkey brain implants? These topics, among others, were the subject of a conversation Musk had on Clubhouse, the voice chat app that's big with Silicon Valley VC types. But Musk's appearance may have been a turning point for the app that moves it into the mainstream. After Musk's talk, Clubhouse's user base nearly doubled, going from 3 to 5 million almost overnight. It's a powerful, popular format, and one that other social media companies are eager to get muscle their way into.


This week on Gadget Lab, former cohost of the show and WIRED senior writer Arielle Pardes joins us to dish about Elon, Clubhouse, and where this kind of social platform goes from here.

本周在Gadget Lab上,该节目的前主持人和《连线》杂志资深作家艾丽尔·帕德斯与我们一起探讨了埃隆,Clubhouse以及这种社交平台从何而来。

Show Notes


Read more about Elon Musk's visit to Clubhouse. Coverage of GameStop and Robinhood is here. You can also listen to audio of Musk's Clubhouse appearance.




Arielle recommends the wine delivery service from Eater Wine Club. Lauren recommends the show Your Honor on Showtime. Mike recommends the autobiography Being Ram Dass by, well, Ram Dass.

阿里耶尔建议Eater葡萄酒俱乐部提供葡萄酒运送服务。劳伦在演艺秀上推荐节目Your Honor 。迈克推荐的自传《 Ram Dass》由拉姆·达斯撰写。

Arielle Pardes can be found on Twitter @pardesoteric. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.

可以在推特上@ pardesoteric上找到艾丽尔·帕德斯。 劳伦·古德是@ LaurenGoode 。迈克尔·卡洛尔是@snackfight。在@GadgetLab拨打主要热线电话。该节目由布恩·阿什沃思(@ booneashworth )制作。我们的主题音乐是Solar Keys制作的。

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Michael Calore: Lauren.


Lauren Goode: Mike.


MC: Lauren, what's your favorite room on Clubhouse?

MC :劳伦,您在俱乐部会所最喜欢的房间是什么?

LG: Oh, this is a tough one. I'd have to say right now it's the room where people sing lullabies to each other at night and they talk in whispers, like this and then they talk to each other and then the next person plays a song and it puts you to sleep. What's yours?

LG :哦,很难回答。我现在能说的是,是人们晚上互相唱摇篮曲的房间,他们像这样低声交谈,然后彼此交谈,然后下一个人播放一首歌,这会让人入睡。你呢?

MC: Well, I'm not going to sing or play you a song, and I don't really have a favorite room because I'm on Android and there is no Android out for Clubhouse.

MC :嗯,我不会唱歌或演奏,而且我真的没有最喜欢的房间,因为我使用的是安卓,而且Clubhouse还没有安卓。

LG: What?

LG :什么?

MC: But we're going to talk about all of that and more on this week's show.

MC :但是我们将在本周的演出中谈论所有这些以及更多。

[Gadget Lab intro theme music]

[Gadget Lab简介主题音乐]

MC: Hi, everyone. Welcome to Gadget Lab. I am Michael Calore. I'm a senior editor at WIRED.

MC :大家好。欢迎来到Gadget Lab。我是迈克尔·卡洛尔。我是《连线》杂志的高级编辑。

LG: And I'm Lauren Goode. I'm a senior writer at WIRED.

LG :我是劳伦·古德。是《连线》杂志的资深作家。

MC: Today we are joined by WIRED senior writer, Arielle Pardes. Hello, Arielle.

MC :今天,《连线》杂志的资深作家艾丽尔·帕德斯也加入了我们的行列。您好,艾丽尔。

Arielle Pardes: Hi, guys.

Arielle Pardes :大家好。

LG: Hey Arielle. It's so great to have you back. When you used to co-host with us, we often heard that people would get our voices confused. So my goal with this episode is just to talk as little as possible so you all can just hear from Arielle.

LG :嘿,艾丽尔。你能回来真是太好了。您以前与我们共同主持时,我们经常听到人们说会混淆我们的声音。所以,本集的目标是尽量少说话,让所有人都能听到艾丽尔的声音。

MC: Absolutely nobody is going to confuse my voice with either of yours, so I think we're in the clear on that one. Anyway. Arielle, we have you on the show this week because we are talking about Clubhouse. If our listeners are not familiar with the social network, it's been around for almost a year and it's very popular among the Silicon Valley and digital media crowd. It's also entirely audio based. So there's no scrolling, there's no photos. People just log on to Clubhouse and gather together to just chat live. You can be a passive listener and soak up an interesting conversation, or you can participate if you want, by asking a question or offering an opinion. Right now, the app is invite only so it has this air of exclusivity about it, and its popularity grows another notch every time a big celebrity pops in.

MC :绝对没有人会把我的声音与你们中的任何一个混淆,所以我认为我们很清楚。无论如何。艾丽尔,我们本周演出主要是谈论Clubhouse。可能有些听众不熟悉它,它已经存在了将近一年,并且在硅谷和数字媒体人群中非常受欢迎。它也完全基于音频。因此,没有滚动,也没有照片。人们只需登录Clubhouse,然后聚在一起就可以实时聊天。您可以是被动的听众并进行有趣的对话,也可以根据需要通过提问或提出意见来参与。目前,该应用程序仅受邀使用,因此它具有排他性的氛围,并且每当有大名人出现时,其受欢迎程度就会进一步提高。

People like Drake, Oprah, Ashton. That's Ashton Kutcher, by the way. But nothing has really rocked Clubhouse as hard as it was rocked this week when Tesla CEO, Elon Musk, dropped in on Sunday night. He talked about Tesla. He talked about space travel. He talked about monkey brain implants. Minds were blown. Twitter blew up and everybody was clamoring to get on Clubhouse at that moment. Arielle, you have been reporting on Clubhouse since the app was in diapers, I think it's fair to say. Set the scene for us. Take us back to Sunday when Elon swung through.


AP: Ooh, boy. Okay. So when you open Clubhouse, if you've never been on the app, you choose between a variety of rooms to enter. It's kind of like getting to a house party and then deciding where you want to spend the night. So some of the rooms are super casual. Some of them are more formal. Some of them are recurring meetings that happen once a week, and on Sunday night, one of those rooms was The Good Time Show, which is a weekly conversation hosted by the technologist and venture capitalist Shriram Krishnan and Aarthi Ramamurthy, and the title was "Elon Musk on Good Time." So people started freaking out. The show started at 10:00 PM Pacific time, which is not a high traffic hour on Clubhouse. That's 1:00 a.m. on the East coast, but when Elon joins, the room just immediately fills up.

AP :哦,小伙子。好的。所以当您打开Clubhouse时,如果您从未使用过该应用,则可以在各种房间之间进行选择。这有点像参加家庭聚会,然后决定要在哪里过夜。所以有些房间超级休闲。其中一些较为正式。其中一些会议是每周一次的定期会议,在周日晚上,其中一个房间是“好时光秀”,这是由技术专家和风险投资家什里兰·克里希南和阿尔蒂·拉玛穆西主持的每周对话。标题是“伊隆·马斯克玩得开心”。于是人们吓坏了。该节目开始于太平洋时间下午10:00,这不是Clubhouse的繁忙时间。那是东海岸的凌晨1:00,但是当伊隆加入时,房间马上就满了。

Clubhouse caps its rooms at 5,000 listeners and right from the get-go, Shriram is like, "My phone is blowing up from people trying to get in. The room is full." Eventually someone started an overflow room to broadcast the conversation and then that one filled up, so someone had to start a second overflow room. People were just ecstatic and I think part of the reason for that excitement is that Clubhouse as a medium is super intimate. So from the very beginning of the conversation, you can hear Elon's tiny dog barking in the background. There's no script. There was no sense of what people are going to talk about. It feels very extemporaneous, and although I'm sure most people in that audience had had heard interviews with Elon Musk before, this probably felt like the closest thing to being on the phone with Elon Musk, which is pretty exciting. So the room fills up and then people start asking questions.


LG: I tuned in for a little bit in one of the overflow rooms, but give us a recap. What were some of the highlights of the conversation?

LG :我在其中一个溢出室里调了一点,但给我们回顾一下。对话的重点是什么?

AP: Oh, the conversation really was wide ranging. Some questions were, "When will we get to Mars?" Five and a half years, Elon says. "Why does human consciousness matter?" "What will it be like when we can download our consciousness and upload it back into a robot corpus?" "Which will come first, a self-sustaining city on Mars or World War Three?" "How should we think about aliens?" I mean, it was really really a wild conversation. Then towards the end, Elon takes this opportunity to invite someone up to the stage, which is one of the features of Clubhouse. Most people do not have speaking privileges in a large Clubhouse room like this one.

AP:哦,谈话的范围确实很大。一些问题是:“我们什么时候去火星?”五年半,伊隆说。 “为什么人类意识很重要?” “当我们可以下载意识并将其上传回机器人语料库时,会是什么样?” “哪个会在火星或第三次世界大战中自给自足的城市中排名第一?” “我们应该如何考虑外星人?”我的意思是,这确实是一场疯狂的谈话。然后到最后,伊隆借此机会邀请某人上台,这是Clubhouse的特色之一。大多数人在像这样的大型会所房间中没有发言权。

So you have to be invited to talk in a room and Elon says, at one point, "Can we bring Vlad up to the stage?" Of course he means Vlad Tenev, who's the CEO of Robinhood. So Vlad starts talking and Elon's like, "Spill the beans. What happened with Robinhood?" and Vlad, who's never used Clubhouse before, starts talking like he's on a formal panel at a conference. He's like, "For those of you who don't know, my name is Vlad Tenev. I'm the CEO of Robinhood and Robinhood is ..." and then everyone's like, "We know! Shut up. Tell us what happened." Then Elon starts grilling him about what happened with GameStop and Robinhood. I mean, I think for anyone who was there for that hour, or maybe listened to a recording later, it feels similar to a lot of the news coverage of Elon Musk and Elon's companies and Robinhood and the whole fiasco. But the candor in that room was wild.


LG: How would you describe this kind of event if people are looking for sort of a preexisting media comparison, right? The idea is that this conversation was led mostly by technologists. People like Shriram and Arthie, and we know Marc Andreessen was part of the room and they're asking other technologists questions. When we do interviews as journalists, we're conducting them as journalists and then people love their podcasts, right? S let's use the Tim Ferriss podcast as an example. He asks really insightful questions, but he tends to come at it from an angle of human interest and fascination. So what kind of vibe do you get from an app like Clubhouse when you have this super high profile person like Elon Musk being interviewed by other people within the same industry? Or when you have the Robinhood CEO, who's the center of a lot of controversy right now, being interviewed by fellow technologists?

LG :如果人们正在寻找一种预先存在的媒体比较方式,您会如何形容这种事件?想着这次对话主要由技术人员主持。像斯里拉姆和阿尔蒂这样的人,我们知道马克·安德森是会议室的一部分,他们在问其他技术专家一些问题。当我们以记者的身份进行采访时,我们是以记者的身份进行采访,然后人们喜欢他们的播客,对吗?让我们以蒂姆·费里斯播客为例。他提出了真正有见地的问题,但是他倾向于从人类兴趣和迷恋的角度来解决这个问题。那么,当您让像伊隆·马斯克这样的超级知名人物受到同行业其他人的采访时,您会从Clubhouse之类的应用程序中获得什么样的氛围?或者,当您拥有Robinhood首席执行官时,他现在正成为众多争议中心的,正接受同行技术人员的采访吗?

AP: Yeah. I think the intent is for these conversations to feel like a fireside chat at a conference where you're getting high profile people in conversation with each other, and there's a sort of formality to it, but it's still a cool conversation to listen into. But in reality, a lot of these conversations on Clubhouse, this one included, end up feeling like you're just hanging out with billionaires in their living room. It's like you've stumbled onto the summer camps in Sun Valley or those private dinners at Sheryl Sandberg's house where this is actually how these people talk to each other when they're in a room that's intimate. That's kind of rare, to hear a high profile person ask Elon Musk if he believes in aliens and then get a serious answer back, he doesn't, is cool and special.

AP :是的。我认为这些对话的目的就像是会议上的炉边聊天,在会议上您会引起高知名度的人们互相交谈,虽然有一定的形式性,但仍然是一个很酷的对话。但实际上,在Clubhouse上进行的许多此类对话(包括其中的对话)最终感觉就像您只是在与亿万富翁在客厅里闲逛一样。就像您偶然发现了太阳谷的夏令营或在雪莉·桑德伯格家里的私人晚宴上,这实际上是这些人在私密房间中彼此交谈的方式。听到一个高调的人问埃隆·马斯克是否相信外星人,然后得到一个认真的回答,他却不觉得,这很罕见,很酷,很特别。

MC: So this was definitely a moment for Clubhouse. Anybody who had not heard of the app before last Sunday has almost certainly heard of it now because of Elon. What kind of jump in popularity has the app seen?

MC :所以这绝对是Clubhouse的时刻。上个星期天之前没有听说过该应用程序的人几乎肯定会因为伊隆而听说过它。该应用看到了什么样的使用率跃升?

AP: Clubhouse has been growing pretty steadily since it launched last year. Just before you Elon house, it was reported that it had 3 million users. Now it says that it has 5 million users and is growing, so that's almost doubling after one very high profile room.


LG: If you had to make a guess as to how big Clubhouse could potentially get what, give us your prognostication. Is that a word? Did I just make up a word?

LG :如果您不得不猜测Clubhouse有多大潜力,请给我们您的预测。是一个字吗?我只说一个字吗?

AP: Yeah, my prognostication is that the sky's the limit for Clubhouse, but if it's going to reach the status that I think a lot of people expect that it could, it's going to have to figure out some important things along the way. So this is still a very nascent social media platform, and it's still figuring out not only its identity and its purpose, but also its logistics. How does it deal with moderation? How does it deal with rooms that are so popular that they inspire multiple overflow rooms? How does it deal with privacy? How does it deal with harassment? How does it deal with people recording its conversations and publishing them elsewhere?

AP :是的,我的预言是天空是Clubhouse的极限,但是如果要达到我认为很多人期望的水平,那么就必须在此过程中找出一些重要的事情。因此,这仍然是一个非常新兴的社交媒体平台,它不仅在确定其身份和目标,而且在确定其物流。如何处理节制?如何处理如此受欢迎以至于激发多个溢流房间的房间?它如何处理隐私?如何处理骚扰?它如何与记录对话并将其发布到其他地方的人们打交道?

So those are all questions that I think will play a role in Clubhouse's growth, not to mention the fact that in the year that Clubhouse has been around, the audio social space has really gotten crowded. So not only will it have to figure out these questions for itself, but it will have to figure them out in context with a bunch of other apps that are trying to do the same thing and are all clamoring for a piece of this social media future.


LG: Right, and many of us are sitting home at night these days connected to wifi networks and we're just having a fairly smooth experience on apps like this. But what happens if we start moving around a little bit more again, traveling again, going back into the office, that sort of thing, in a post pandemic world? You brought up a great point about recordings and I'm wondering, what's Clubhouse's thinking around posterity right now. Does the Elon interview live anywhere at the moment where people can go back and re-listen or are we just relying on recaps from people?

LG :是的,这些天我们很多人晚上都坐在家里,连接到wifi网络,而在这样的应用程序上,我们的体验却相当流畅。但是,如果在大流行后的世界中,我们又开始四处走动,再次旅行,回到办公室,会发生什么呢?您提出了关于录音的一个要点,我想知道,Clubhouse现在对后代的想法是什么。当人们回去重新聆听时,Elon访谈是否存在于任何地方?还是我们只是依靠人们的回顾?

AP: Yeah. So this is actually an interesting moment in Clubhouse's history. For the year that it's been around, Clubhouse has been pretty strict about the ephemerality of the app. So if a conversation happens on Clubhouse, you have to be there in the room to listen to it. You can't rely on recordings. You can't scroll back in your feed and reread a transcript because those don't exist. That's, I think, really led to the popularity of the app. People want to spend time there just in case something interesting happens. Because if you're not there, then you're not going to be a part of it. But with this conversation with Elon, there are recordings of it all over the internet. I mean, you can listen to the whole thing on YouTube if you want, and that feels like a real departure from how the app has been used in the past.

AP :是的。因此,这实际上是Clubhouse历史上一个有趣的时刻。在过去的一年中,Clubhouse对应用程序的短暂性一直非常严格。因此,如果在Clubhouse上进行对话,您必须在房间里聆听。您不能依赖录音。您无法向后滚动并重新阅读成绩单,因为那些成绩单不存在。我认为,这确实导致了该应用程序的普及。人们想在那里度过时光,以防发生一些有趣的事情。因为如果您不在那里,那么您就不会成为其中的一部分。但是,通过与伊隆的对话,整个互联网上都有录音。我的意思是,您可以根据需要在YouTube上聆听所有内容,这与过去使用该应用程序的感觉完全不同。

Clubhouse has pretty strict rules about recording. You can get kicked off the app if you record something without someone's permission. But in this case, all of the speakers in the room had agreed that recording was okay and for that reason, it's been able to live on as this piece of audio documentation. That kind of raises interesting questions about what Clubhouse is for. Is it really a place where people are just hanging out and having spontaneous conversations? Or is it more of a democratized podcast platform? Is this a place where people are recording audio that's intended to live in sort of podcast form somewhere else? Or is it a place where people come to have candid conversations that they know they can trust people to keep in the room? So those are interesting questions, but yeah, if you're interested in hearing the Elon interview, it's all over the internet and you can find it in many places with a simple search.


MC: One of the places you can find it is in the show notes, we'll link to it, even though it may disappear right after we link to it. Well look, we have to take a quick break, and when we come back, we'll have more about Clubhouse and Elon house and the competitors with Arielle Pardes.

MC :您可以在展览记录中找到它的一个地方,我们将链接到它,即使链接到它后可能会消失。好吧,我们必须稍作休息,当我们回来时,我们将了解有关Clubhouse和伊隆之家以及与艾丽尔·帕德斯竞争的更多信息。



MC: So, Arielle, you mentioned that Clubhouse is probably not going to be alone for very long in the audio-only social network space. Some competitors are popping up. What can you tell us about them?

MC :所以,艾丽尔,您提到在纯音频的社交网络空间中,Clubhouse可能不会长期孤单。一些竞争对手正在涌现。您能告诉我们些什么?

AP: Right. So Clubhouse is not the first audio social network and it certainly won't be the last and in the past year, we've seen this space just really, really grow. So there are sort of legacy brands like Discord, which already had millions and millions of users and a really popular base among gamers. Discord, last year, decided to rebrand as an audio platform for everyone. So similar to Clubhouse, they're trying to be a space where you come and you hang out and you talk to people. Twitter also launched its own version of Clubhouse called Audio Spaces, which I will say has an identical design. It has not quite taken off the way Clubhouse has, but they are certainly going after a similar group of users.

AP :对。Clubhouse并不是第一个音频社交网络,并且肯定不会是最后一个。在过去的一年中,我们已经看到这个空间确实,确实在增长。因此,存在诸如Discord之类的传统品牌,该品牌已经拥有数百万用户,并且在游戏玩家中非常受欢迎。去年,Discord决定将其品牌重塑为所有人的音频平台。与Clubhouse一样,他们都试图成为一个空间,让您来这里闲逛,与他人交谈。推特还发布了自己的Clubhouse版本,称为音频空间,我会说它具有相同的设计。它并没有像Clubhouse那样大放异彩,但是他们肯定会追随类似的用户群。

Then there are all kinds of smaller audio upstarts. There's Wave, there's Riffer, there's Spoon. These are sort of trying to break off more specific pieces of the audio pie. So a podcast you have with your friends or a place that you hang out and play music with strangers on the internet, or all these different possibilities that become possible when you are looking at audio rather than text.


MC: I'm sure that's where all the action is. It's on Spoon.

MC :我敢肯定这就是所有行动。蓄势待发。

LG: So what's interesting about Clubhouse is there are elements of the app's user interface that do suggest it's kind of this open experience. You described it as going to a house party and then deciding which room to go into. I tend to think of it as you're walking through the main corridor of a tech conference, and then you just open the double doors and go into one of the sessions and you can just take a seat and start listening. But at the same time, the way the app is run also suggests it's not really a totally open space, right? It's still invite only and there are just certain mechanisms that feel a little bit exclusionary. So I'm wondering, I guess, two things. One, do you envision Clubhouse truly becoming a fully open app at some point, and the second is that do you think that competitors could do a better job of making an app that feels more inclusive?

LG :所以Clubhouse有趣的是,该应用程序的用户界面中的某些元素确实暗示了这种开放体验。您将其描述为参加家庭聚会,然后决定要进入哪个房间。在您走过技术会议的主要走廊时,我倾向于想到它,然后您打开双门进入其中一个会议,然后可以坐下来开始聆听。但是与此同时,应用程序的运行方式也表明它并不是真正的完全开放的空间,对吗?它仍然仅是邀请,并且某些机制有些排他性。所以我想知道,有两件事。首先,您是否设想Clubhouse在某个时候真正成为完全开放的应用程序,其次,您是否认为竞争对手可以做出更好的工作来制作更具包容性的应用程序?

AP: Well, I do think it will be more open in the sense that in the very near future, I don't think you'll need an invite to log onto Clubhouse. But I think what you're referring to, Lauren, is the nature of Clubhouse is very different than an app like Twitter or like Facebook, platforms that have long compared themselves to the public square. I mean, Twitter says its mission is to support the world's conversations. I don't get the sense that Clubhouse aspires to do that. The experience is very much designed to be like entering a space that's already occupied by someone else. So there are varying levels of interaction and varying levels of access, but none of them are entirely open. I think that's actually on purpose. In most rooms in Clubhouse, you need an invitation to have speaking privileges, which is a very different experience than I think what many of us have experienced on Twitter, where you're talking to someone and then some random person intersects with their thoughts or their insults or whatever.

AP :嗯,我认为这会更加开放,因为在不久的将来,我认为您不需要邀请即可登录Clubhouse。但是,我想,劳伦是指Clubhouse的本质,它与推特和脸书这样的应用程序截然不同。我的意思是,推特表示其使命是支持世界各地的对话。我不觉得Clubhouse渴望做到这一点。它的体验设计非常像进入一个已经被别人占用的空间。因此,交互级别和访问级别各不相同,但是没有一个是完全开放的。我认为这实际上是故意的。在Clubhouse的大多数房间中,您需要邀请才能获得发言权,这与我认为我们很多人在推特上经历的体验截然不同,在推特上您与某人交谈,然后一些随机的人与他们的想法或辱骂或其他相同。

It's like, "Get out of my thread." So I actually think the exclusion can be an asset if it's wielded in the right way. There's something really nice about being a speaker in a Clubhouse room and knowing that you just have the floor, that people are going to listen to you. No one can interrupt you unless you call on them. So I think that can be an asset and is probably part of why certain groups of people have found Clubhouse really energizing and exciting. It's a space where you can have a conversation about black characters in anime and know that a white guy isn't going to interrupt you unless you allow him. So that's cool. But it obviously has a dark side as well, which is that you can wield inclusion and exclusion to the detriment or to the advantage of your users.


I do think that that happens on Clubhouse as well. One of the critiques of early Clubhouse was that it felt like a lot of rich people in venture capital who were having conversations, circle jerks, if you will, amongst themselves to the inclusion of anyone else. I think that is starting to change, but you're absolutely right, Lauren, that this is one of the remaining questions. Is this going to be an open public social network or is it going to be more closed and private? And where is the boundary within that makes Clubhouse feel like a space that people want to hang out?


LG: Right, and we should note that it's come to our attention that some journalists, myself included, have been blocked from The Good Time room, the room where Elon spoke earlier this week on certain nights. So I have been able to tune into The Good Time conversations. Other times, I simply can't get into the room. Some journalists have compared notes and we think that the common denominator is that one of the Valley's most powerful venture capitalists has actually sort of gone through and made sure that journalists can't tune in when he is one of the speakers. So blocking is a part of the app. To your point, there is something that's protective about that. There are probably some people who don't want to be harassed on this platform. They want to use it as a space to have a conversation with people in their social networks.

LG :是的,我们应该注意到,引起我们注意的是,包括我在内的一些记者被封锁了好时光会议室,该会议室是伊隆本周早些时候在某些晚上发表的讲话。所以我能够收听好时光对话。其他时候,我根本无法进入房间。一些记者比较了笔记,我们认为共同点是硅谷最强大的风险投资家之一实际上已经经历了一次,并确保当他是发言人之一时记者无法收听。因此,阻止是应用程序的一部分。就您的观点而言,有一些保护措施。可能有些人不想在此平台上受到骚扰。他们希望将其用作与社交网络中的人进行对话的空间。

But in this case, it's a very powerful person who, to the best of my knowledge, I've never met, never interviewed. But I'm blocked across the social networks and who's going through and blocking journalists. Talk a little bit about this.


AP: Yeah. So Clubhouse introduced the blocking feature in October, along with some other moderation tools. These were sort of long asked for tools to help make the experience safer and better for users who are dealing with things like harassment. I think what you're referring to is that there are a select few users who have used these blocking tools differently maybe than they're intended. I'm not sure why, or to what end certain important people in VC might be blocking journalists. I will say that I ... I mean, I don't think this is exclusive to Clubhouse is the thing that I would say. I'm blocked by Marc Andreessen on Twitter and I have no idea why. What did I ever do to him? But I mean, I think that just is an extension of social behavior by certain people in general.

AP :是的。所以Clubhouse于10月推出了阻止功能以及其他一些调节工具。长期以来,人们一直在寻求这些工具,以帮助处理骚扰等问题的用户获得更安全,更好的体验。我认为指的是有少数用户使用这些阻止工具的方式可能与他们预期的不同。我不确定为什么,风投中的某些重要人物可能会阻止记者,或者到什么时候才阻止记者。我会说我……我的意思是,我不认为这是Clubhouse所独有的。我在推特上被马克·安德森封锁,我也不知道为什么。我对他做了什么?但是我的意思是,我认为这只是某些人的社会行为的延伸。

LG: Right. It's its own club to be blocked by Marc Andreessen at this point.

LG :对。这是马克·安德森封锁的自己的俱乐部。

AP: Yeah. I'm very proud to be in it.

AP :是的。我为自己感到骄傲。

MC: He blocked you because you wrote about Clubhouse.

MC :他阻止了您,因为您撰写了有关Clubhouse的文章。

LG: Right.

LG :对。

AP: Maybe. I mean, I love Clubhouse though. But I think the more important thing about blocking is that it represents one small step that Clubhouse is taking toward making its rooms feel safer, giving its users a little bit more control and helping to prevent some of the issues that it faced last summer where people were in conversations that felt deeply harassing. So I think if the net effect of that is that some of us get blocked by Marc Andreessen, I can live with that.


LG: Right. And as we learned from the Elon experience, we're still able to hear some of the more high profile or important conversations that are happening on this platform.

LG :对。而且,根据我们从伊隆的经验中学到的信息,我们仍然能够听到该平台上发生的一些比较引人注目的或重要的对话。

AP: Yeah.

AP :是的。

MC: You know, as you said, eventually, it's going to open up. It's iOS only right now, but there's hopefully at some point going to be an Android version of the app. They're also going to drop the invite only system so that anybody can just sign up and join. So when the hoi polloi flood in and all of a sudden their active users goes from 5 million to 150 million, I just wonder if the culture that they have very carefully cultivated is going to be able to survive. Because it is a very insider-y ... it's a club. It's very clubby. It's very cliquey. It's like an insider-y piece of social media. Right? You have people who are sort of their own little stars on Clubhouse. Then, like you said, you have these recurring shows. Are those going to be able to maintain the same flavor once it's open to everybody?

MC :您知道,正如您所说的,最终它将会开放。目前仅是iOS,但希望在某个时候成为该应用程序的安卓版本。他们还将删除仅邀请系统,以便任何人都可以注册并加入。因此,当网民泛滥成灾后,他们的活跃用户突然从500万增加到1.5亿,我只是想知道他们精心培育的文化是否能够生存。因为这是一个非常内行的人...这是一个俱乐部。非常棒。有派系感。就像是内部媒体一样。是吗?在Clubhouse上一些人有他们自己心中的明星。就像您说的那样,您将拥有这些重复出现的节目。一旦向所有人开放,那些人就能保持相同的风味吗?

AP: Yeah. I would argue that the hoi polloi is already there. I mean, if you have 5 million people using your app, not all of those people are going to be celebrities or billionaires or highly connected people in the tech industry. So my experience over the last year is that the app has already changed tremendously. It used to be a lot of tech people, VCs, founders, kind of talking about products and the biz. Now it's much, much more diverse. There's been this huge influx of folks from the music industry. I would actually say that's not the dominant conversation on Clubhouses, is music. There are tons of creatives. Meek Mill goes on a lot now, so that's cool. But I think we're going to continue seeing these new communities emerge. I mean, I've been in amazing Clubhouse conversations from chefs who have been laid off this last year, who are talking about how they're dealing with home cooking, knowing that their restaurants are closed.

AP :是的。我会争辩说,警察局已经在那儿了。我的意思是,如果您有500万人使用您的应用程序,那么并不是所有这些人都将成为科技行业中的名人,亿万富翁或高度联系的人。因此,我去年的经验是该应用程序已经发生了巨大变化。曾经有很多技术人员,风投,创始人,谈论产品和业务的人。现在,它变得越来越多样化。音乐界的人们涌入这里。我实际上会说,不是俱乐部会所的主导话题,而是音乐。有大量的创意。米克·米尔现在进行了很多工作,这很酷。但是我认为我们将继续看到这些新社区的出现。我的意思是,去年以来,我和被解雇的大厨们在俱乐部会所中进行了令人惊讶的谈话,他们在谈论自己的餐馆正在关门的同时谈论自己如何处理家庭烹饪。

I've been an amazing rooms with  astrologists who are doing virtual readings over Clubhouse. I think it's incredibly diverse already.


MC: That's great.

MC :太好了。

AP: Yeah. Yeah. I think it is good. The question is, can that remain? So for me, the concern is not that the hoi polloi will somehow ruin the exclusive nature of Clubhouse. It's rather that the diversity and the vibrance will fade after people get bored of the app. So I think the big challenge right now is to find creators and influencers, if you will, who can bring people back to the app for all kinds of different reasons. So Clubhouse is a place where you can hang out with Elon Musk. Sure. But is it also a place where you can hear the next up and coming singer or get to know a comedian before they do their Netflix special? Or is it a place where you can get cooking advice from some of the best chefs in America? What are the reasons that people are going to come back to Clubhouse? Because they find people that they like listening to and talking to on the app. And that has to extend beyond tech because there aren't enough people in the world who care about venture capital for that to be the thing that sustains Clubhouse.

AP :是的。是的我觉得很好。问题是,那还能保留吗?因此,对我而言,关注的不是民意会以某种方式破坏俱乐部会所的排他性。相反,人们对应用程序感到厌倦之后,多样性和活力就会消失。因此,我认为当前的最大挑战是,如果可以的话,要找到创建者和影响者,他们可以出于各种不同的原因而将人们带回应用程序。因此,Clubhouse是您可以与伊隆·马斯克闲逛的地方。当然。但这是否也是一个地让您可以在他们特别喜欢Netflix之前听到下一个即将到来的歌手或认识喜剧演员吗?还是在这里您可以从美国一些最好的厨师那里获得烹饪建议?人们会回到俱乐部会所的原因是什么?因为他们在应用程序上找到了喜欢听和说的人。而且这必须超出技术范围,因为世界上没有足够的人关心风险资本,以使之成为维持Clubhouse的要素。

MC: Well, that's great to hear. Hopefully it's just going to become something that's not special anymore and it's just going to become part of our lives.

MC :嗯,很高兴听到。希望它将变得不再特别,并且将成为我们生活的一部分。

AP: Yeah. I think that would be Clubhouse's wish as well. I mean, it's a wish that comes with a lot of concern. I think Twitter is a great parallel of an app that was created to just help people have conversations, and what's the worst that could happen. Twitter has risen to this truly astronomical sphere of influence, where you get all kinds of conversations and they're diverse and it's people who are important and famous and people who are nobody. It's a place where so much is happening and that's amazing, but it also means that a world leader can use it as their megaphone in ways that maybe we'd rather not see. So Clubhouse will have to reckon with that if it gets popular enough, but for now, it's small.

AP :是的。我认为这也是Clubhouse的愿望。我的意思是,这是一个令人担忧的愿望。我认为推特与一款旨在帮助人们进行对话的应用程序非常相似,这是最糟糕的情况。 推特已经上升到这个真正的影响范围高度,在这里您可以进行各种对话,而且对话是多种多样的,重要的是名人,著名的人和一般人。这个地方发生了很多事情,这真是太神奇了,但这也意味着世界领导者可以用我们不愿看到的方式将其用作扩音器。因此,如果它足够流行,Clubhouse将不得不考虑这一点,但是就目前而言,它很小。

One thing I wanted to point out is this app has seen really astronomical success in the past year. It just raised its series B in January. So it's now valued at $1 billion. To put that in context, people really bulked when Facebook bought Instagram for a billion dollars in 2012, but by then Instagram already had 30 million users. It was an app that was going places. Clubhouse is much, much earlier in its journey and has much fewer people. So it's still really trying to figure out what it wants to become while also knowing that it has these expectations that it's going to be the next biggest thing in social media.


MC: Well, thanks Elon.

MC :恩,谢谢伊隆。

LG: I was just going to say, I can't count the days that I wake up in the morning and think, "You know what I really want? Another social media app to take over my life." Can we have a second Twitter please? The first one just is not enough. It's not enough volatility for me.

LG :我只是想说,我无法数起我早晨起床的日子,并想:“您知道我真正想要的吗?另一个社交媒体应用程序接管了我的生活。”我们可以再有一个推特吗?仅第一个还不够。对我来说这还不够波动。

MC: It's not enough talking.

MC :这还不够。

LG: Yeah.

LG :是的。

MC: All right. Well, I'll tell you what. We have to end it here. Let's take a break, and when we come back, we're going to finish out with recommendations.

MC :好的。好吧,我告诉你。我们必须在这里结束。让我们休息一下,等我们回来时,我们将提出一些建议。

All right, Arielle, I know this is your favorite part of the show. So tell us, what is your recommendation?


AP: I recommend the Eater Wine Club. This is a box of wine that gets delivered to your door every month and it's curated by someone that Eater, the food website, thinks is cool and know stuff about wine. I've been getting them since the very first one, which was last fall and all of the wines have been just really interesting and delicious and cool. The first box was curated by a woman named Swan Graze, who is the beverage director at Olmsted, and she did a box that was all Greek wines, which is just really different. You don't get the chance to drink Greek wine that often in the United States. The box came with this sweet little card where she wrote about her first trip to Greece and dreaming about traveling in a year when traveling wasn't possible and getting to do that through food and wine when you can't do it on your own feet.

美联社:我推荐Eater葡萄酒俱乐部。这是一箱葡萄酒,每个月都会送到您家门口,由食品网站Eater很酷并且对葡萄酒有所了解的人策划。从去年秋天的第一个年份开始,我就一直买到它们。所有的葡萄酒都非常有趣,美味,凉爽。第一个盒子是由奥姆斯特德的饮料主管,名叫Swan Graze的女士策划的,她做了一个盒子,里面装满了希腊葡萄酒,这是完全不同的。没有机会在美国经常喝希腊葡萄酒。盒子里有一张可爱的小卡片,上面写着她的第一次希腊旅行,并梦想着在无法旅行的一年内旅行,而当你无法独自行走时,可以通过食物和酒来做到这一点。

So it's a really cool subscription. It's also nice to know that I'm always going to have a bottle of wine on hand that I'm happy to bring to a picnic or crack open on a Monday night. I also just have to respect Eater's hustle to diversify their revenue since we all know that journalism is in crisis, and if I can help that just a little bit by drinking wine, I am very happy to do that. So it's four bottles for $110 or two bottles for $70 and it's delivered every month and it's awesome.


LG: This is a great recommendation.

LG :这是一个很好的建议。

MC: Supporting journalism with booze.

MC :用酒来支持新闻事业。

AP: Yes. Yes.

AP :是的。是。

MC: Lauren, what is your recommendation?

MC :劳伦,您有什么建议?

LG: My recommendation is not quite as fun as Arielle's and I admit it's a little bit uncreative because it's just been a tiring couple of weeks and at night I'm mostly just sitting on the couch and trying to figure out what to watch to take my mind off things. I did end up watching Your Honor on Showtime. It's a show starring Bryan Cranston. It's pretty dark. He plays a judge in New Orleans who is trying to get his son, shall we say, out of a pickle. That's really underplaying it, the severity of the plot line. But it's a pretty intense show and the thing about it is that I'm all caught up at this point and the next couple of episodes aren't airing until this Sunday night and then the subsequent Sunday night. I haven't experienced a show like this in a really, really long time and I actually thought that the new episode was going to come out on Sunday, January 31st.

LG :我的推荐并不像艾丽尔的那么有趣,我承认这有点创意,因为这只是几周的疲惫,晚上我大多只是坐在沙发上,试图弄清楚看些什么我不在乎的事情。我最终在演艺秀上观看了Your Honor。这是布莱恩·克兰斯顿主演的节目。很黑暗。他在新奥尔良扮演一名法官,他正试图从泡菜中解脱他的儿子。情节线的严重性确实不足。但这是一个非常令人紧张的节目,因为我一直在追,接下来的几集要等到这个星期天晚上再播出之后再播出。我已经很长时间没有经历过这样的节目了,我实际上以为新的情节将在1月31日(星期日)上映。

So stayed up till 10:00 p.m. Pacific time on Sunday, January 31st and was closing and opening the Showtime app and closing and opening it and being like, "Where's the new episode?" I was so disappointed when I went on the internet and was like, "Oh, it's not until February 7th." It was just like, Wow, we really are ... The Netflix-ification of our society is just ... it's fully taken over. We're so used to watching everything we want when we want it. So now it's just ... I have to wait. I have to wait for the next episode.


MC: I'm telling you, I am totally looking forward to this show, but I am waiting until the whole thing is done so I can just watch it all at once.

MC :我告诉你,我完全期待这次演出,但是我等到整个事情都完成了,这样我就可以一次观看所有节目。

LG: So you can binge it. Yep.

LG :所以你可以狂欢。是的

MC: Yeah.

MC :是的。

AP: Lauren, did you know that on Sunday night at 10 o'clock you could have been listening to Elon Musk on Clubhouse instead?


LG: Well, that's what I did. Then Your Honor wasn't available in the Showtime app. So then I opened up Clubhouse and then I couldn't get into the room because there so many people in it and also I'm blocked by Marc Andreessen, so then aI went to the overflow room and then I listened for 20 minutes until I heard Elon Musk talking about monkey brains. Then I was like, "What am I doing with my life?" Then I went to bed.

LG :恩,那就是我所做的。您的荣誉没有在演艺秀应用中。所以我打开了Clubhouse,然后就无法进入房间,因为里面人太多了,而且我也被马克·安德森挡住了,然后我去了溢出室,然后听了20分钟,直到我听到伊隆·马斯克谈论猴子的大脑。然后我就说:“我在做什么?”然后我上床睡觉。

AP: Wow.

AP :哇。

LG: Yeah.

LG :是的。

AP: I recommend an existential crisis.


LG: By the way, these problems, in the scale of a global pandemic, are not problems. But man, what a bizarre world we live in. Mike, what's your recommendation?

LG :顺便说一下,在全球大流行中,这些问题并不是问题。但是,伙计,我们生活在一个多么奇怪的世界中。迈克,您有什么建议?

MC: Oh, boy. All right, everybody calm down. Bring your attention to your third eye center. I'm going to recommend a book. It is a memoir written by Ram Dass and it is called Being Ram Dass. Ram Dass is a spiritual dude. He was a spiritual dude. He died about a year and a month ago and he left behind this memoir and it is a look back at his life. Ram Dass's life is wild. He was born Richard Alpert. He was a psychologist. He was at Harvard in the 1960s. He got involved with Timothy Leary and the psilocybin experiment. He was one of the key people who popularized the use of psychedelics in the 1960s. He left that scene behind. He went to India. He lived as an ascetic in India for a number of years. He met a guru. He became this popularizer of Indian and Eastern philosophies in the United States.

MC :哦,男孩。好吧,大家冷静下来。将注意力转移到第三只眼的中心。我将推荐一本书。这是由拉姆·达斯撰写的回忆录,被称为《成为拉姆·达斯Being Ram Dass)》 。 拉姆·达斯是一个精神强大的人。他大约一年零一个月前去世,留下了这本回忆录,回想起他的生活。拉姆·达斯的生活很疯狂。他出生于理查德·阿尔珀特。他是一名心理学家。他于1960年代在哈佛大学。他参与了蒂莫西·里瑞和赛洛西宾实验。他是1960年代普及使用药的关键人物之一。他抛掉一切。去了印度。在印度苦行僧多年。遇到了一位上师。最后在美国成为印度和东方哲学的大众化者。

He went on speaking tours throughout the 1980s and 1990s. He wrote a bunch of books. He wrote a book that you've probably heard of called Be Here Now, which is a lot of people's first introduction to Eastern religion and just the idea of sort of psychedelic consciousness, is probably the best way to put it. Sort of seeing yourself as one with the universe. That concept that we all sort of take for granted now was not very well known until Ram Dass And a lot of people like him started telling this story. Now, his life story is really just amazing. Not only do you hear about all that stuff, but you hear about his struggles with his own homosexuality in coming out and also the end of his life, because he had a long protracted period of illness at the end of his life, and he has some very interesting views on death.

他在整个1980年代和1990年代进行演讲之旅。他写了一堆书。他写了一本书,您可能已经听说过,叫做《 Be Here Now》 ,这是很多人第一次介绍东方宗教,而仅仅是一种迷幻意识的想法,可能是最好的表达方式。有点把自己看作与宇宙合而为一。直到拉姆·达斯之前,我们大家都认为是理所当然的概念才广为人知。像他这样的许多人开始讲这个故事。现在,他的人生故事真的很棒。您不仅会听到所有这些东西,而且还会听到他与自己的同性恋在挣扎中的挣扎以及生命的尽头,因为他生命的尽头是长期的疾病,而且他患有关于死亡的一些非常有趣的观点。

I haven't finished the book, but I've jumped around because I was really curious to see what he had to say about his own impending death. It is just beautiful writing, a really amazing book an incredible book cover. I know that in the digital era, we don't get to say that a lot, but the book cover is really just amazing. So I can highly recommend this. It is the Ram Dass autobiography. It's called Being Ram Dass, and that's Dass with two S's. So just go to ramdass.org and you can find out more about it.

我还没有读完这本书,但我翻来翻去,因为我真的很想知道他对即将来临的死亡有何评论。这只是美丽的写作,一本非常了不起的书,一本令人难以置信的书封面。我知道在数字时代,我们不必多说,但是书的封面真的很棒。因此,我强烈建议您这样做。这是拉姆·达斯自传。它叫做Being Ram Dass ,也就是带有两个S的达斯。因此,只需访问ramdass.org,您可以找到更多有关它的信息。

LG: That sounds amazing. I also really appreciate how you brought us back to a Zen place.

LG :听起来很棒。我也非常感谢您将我们带回禅宗之地。

AP: Yeah. That is wonderful. Mike, I can't wait to read this. I have some friends who are pretty into Ram Dass and one of the highlights of 2020 for me was going to a outdoor park hike birthday party in which my friend insisted everyone sit in a circle six feet apart and to listen to a Ram Dass lecture and then do a 15 minute meditation together. It was so special and really helped me feel present in a year that felt otherwise a very chaotic and bad.

AP :是的。太好了迈克,我等不及要读这篇。我有一些朋友对拉姆·达斯情有独钟,而对我而言,2020年的一大亮点是参加户外公园远足生日聚会,在该聚会中,我的朋友坚持认为每个人都围成六英尺,围成一圈坐下来,听拉姆·达斯的演讲,然后一起做15分钟的冥想。太特别了,真的让我感觉一年中的存在,否则感觉非常混乱和糟糕。

MC: That's great. Yeah, and he has ... I forget the name of the foundation. Well, there's the foundation, but there's a bunch of foundations that have grown up around his work, and one of them puts out Ram Dass Here and Now the podcast series, which is just a collection of his lectures. So every week you get a new half hour of him talking. His speaking voice is great because he has this sort of Boston accent and he's talking about all these concepts of Buddhism and Hinduism and he's doing it in this Boston accent. It's really just great. I listen to him when I run.

MC :太好了。是的,他有...我忘记了基金会的名称。好了,有基础,但是围绕他的工作已经成长了很多基础,其中一个基础就是拉姆·达斯此时此地播客系列,这只是他的演讲集。因此,每周您都会得到一个新的半小时他在讲话。他的声音之所以出色,是因为他具有波士顿的这种口音,并且他正在谈论佛教和印度教的所有这些概念,并且他正在以波士顿的这种口音来做。真的很棒。我跑步时听他的话。

AP: Wow. Love that.

AP :哇。喜欢那个

LG: Do you find yourself going to a Zen place when you run?

LG :跑步时,您是否会前往禅宗场所?

MC: Yeah. It's the whole reason I do it. Well, I mean, that and it makes you feel good. All right. Well, thanks, everybody, for the laughs. I really needed that, and thank you all for listening. That is our show. Thank you, Arielle for joining us.

MC :是的。这是我这样做的全部理由。好吧,我的意思是,那会让您感觉很好。好吧。好了,谢谢大家的笑声。我真的很需要,感谢大家的收听。那是我们的表演。谢谢艾丽尔加入我们。

AP: Thanks for having me.


MC: Anytime. Absolutely anytime. You can drop in like Elon and just blow this up.

MC :任何时候。绝对随时都可以。您可以像伊隆一样出现,然后炸掉全场。

AP: Wow. I'm honored.

AP :哇。我很荣幸。

LG: We're going to get at least 5,000 more listeners this week because Arielle joined us.

LG :由于艾丽尔加入了我们,本周我们将至少吸引5,000名听众。

MC: And just wait for our series B, which is coming up in a couple of weeks. If you have feedback, you can find all of us on Twitter. Just check the show notes. This show is produced by Boone Ashworth and his lovely cat Gandalf. Thanks everybody for listening. We will be back next week. Goodbye.

MC :等待我们的B系列,这将在几周后出现。如果您有反馈,可以在推特上找到我们所有人。只需查看显示注释即可。该节目由布恩·阿什沃思和他可爱的猫甘道夫制作。谢谢大家的倾听。我们下周回来。再见。

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